Interview
A Conversation With Prof. Carlson Anyangwe On “The War In The Cameroons”
REFLECTIONS ON SOME OF THE TOPICS THAT CAME UP DURING THE INTERVIEW
(This is the first report on the Prof. Toyin Falola Interviews on “The War in the Cameroons” on July 18, 2021. With the number of views over 30,000 on 7 platforms, it is clear that this is issue is of great interest. For its entire recording, see https://fb.watch/v/1Xu7uYhue/ or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzK81pf3F0A)
By Denis Atemnkeng
Carlson Anyangwe
During our interview, many questions were asked. A number of them caught my attention: the question of whether Ambazonia may not go the way of South Sudan; the question on the Black identity; and the question concerning harmonious existence of conflicting societies such as Rwanda, Nigeria and Cameroon, whose case is that of two countries with one annexing the other. There was also a question on Pan-Africanism.
I want to take the opportunity to share my ideas with you on these issues.
1. On Whether Ambazonia May Not Go The South Sudan Way
I have observed a curious phenomenon with national football teams: they retain their fundamental pattern of play despite the fact that all players have been changed and the coaches have also changed! If you observe, you would confirm this! A people too tend to be like that. The people of Ambazonia, after leaving the Eastern House of Assembly in Enugu in 1954, ruled themselves excellently until 1961 when their country was annexed. They conducted free and fair elections in 1959 in which power changed hands without any fighting. This is a feat that hardly any other African country has been able to emulate. Thus even though that was a completely different generation from the Ambazonians of today, the phenomenon just mentioned applies: they have remained democratic and will continue to be tolerant and democratic as their Founding Fathers. The South Sudan scenario can be predicted not to happen.
Secondly, what Ambazonia is suffering is annexation and colonization. The solution to annexation is not to continue the annexation for fear that the people annexed will not be able to rule themselves. We are talking here of a people who ruled themselves successfully before their annexation; of a people who set governing standards that the annexing country has not been able to emulate; of a people who attained self-government before the annexing country. If annexation were a system of preparing the people to take over their own affairs, like the Trusteeship system, one could remotely say that more time is needed to prepare the people for self-rule. But annexation is a system of violence, oppression and foreign imposition on the annexed people. It does not prepare the people for self-rule; it seeks to enslave and subjugate the people. I was taught that we learn to do by doing, which means that a people does not learn to govern themselves until they begin to govern themselves. No colonized people learns to govern itself by remaining under colonial rule.
READ ALSO: The Ambazonia Independence Movement In Cameroon: Agitations And Lessons
Annexation has no intention of letting go of the annexed people at any time in the future. It is pure and simple armed robbery! It wants to suppress the people forever! The acquisition of skills that takes place even when the colonial master does not want it, cannot be considered as preparation for self-rule. No doubt, despite the centuries of colonial rule of Africans, once the colonial rule ended, everything descended to the level of the people before a new beginning could be found.
Thirdly, what is new about the South Sudan Civil war? Much older countries including America, the Soviet Union, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Spain, Yugoslavia, Libya, the two Congos, Liberia, Uganda, Mozambique, etc., have all had even worse civil wars. Why do we look upon that of South Sudan as the end of the world? Is it not a temporary breakdown of the state, just like in all these other cases? Did anyone suggest that these other countries that had civil wars should never have existed? No one can justly say that South Sudan has failed as if we are at the end of time. Stoking these fears blinds simple understand of the facts that I am advancing here.
Fourth, it is not in the nature of any human being or any people to want to suffer in the hands of foreigners. Such suffering, real or perceived will be opposed. When human beings aspire to rule themselves, they are not saying that all will be a bed of roses. No. They are only aligning with their nature, which is to be self-determining! Whatever happens under one’s own will is more palatable than what happens under alien and foreign domination. Have you noticed that crimes committed by foreigners attract more anger than the same crimes committed by locals? Why? Because we always prefer to eat our own shit!
Even if a colonized people are set free and they fail, that is their own failure; that is their own act. They have a wonderful chance of learning from it. Would you rather eat your own shit or someone else’s shit?
Denis Atemnkeng
2. Black identity question
The colour of our skin is not a system of governance; it is not also a set of values. People disagree because they don’t have the same values or don’t agree on the system of governance. There is no way to build any state in Africa or elsewhere based on colour.
Europeans are not all in one state. Africans can never be one state. Before the Whiteman came, Africa was not one state; it has never been one state. Each tribe was a sovereign state and so there were thousands of states in Africa. Some have continued to mislead by saying that the Whiteman partitioned and balkanized Africa. No. The Whiteman reduced the number of tribal states in Africa, which were in their thousands, to the few states we have today. Each of these states has been indelibly imprinted with the mentality and system of governance of the colonial power. Those governed by the Spanish do not think like those governed by the French or the English.
READ ALSO: The War In The Cameroons
Each colonial power effectively created its own children in Africa! The children of Britain think along British lines; the children of France think along French lines and so on. Tribes which were divided between different colonial powers can no more live in the same house: the Gambian and Senegalese cannot share the same state; the South African Zulu and the Mozambican Zulu cannot share the same state; Ambazonia and Cameroon Republic cannot share the same state: their thinking on state affairs is too different. Not only that, our tribal values play almost no role in the modern state system.
Thus when it is nothing to do with the state, the Gambian and Senegalese can speak their language, eat their food, dance their traditional dances together and so on; but cannot agree on how to run the state. Within some of these modern states formerly ruled by one colonial master, there are still conflicts, as for example in Nigeria. Such conflicts are not disagreements on the system of governance and state values, as for example between the Gambia and Senegal, but concern mainly power or feeling of being marginalized or economic inequality. A feeling of being perpetually excluded from power is enough to generate conflict.
The Black identity cannot therefore resolve the conflicts that divide Africa. We feel that identity not when we are among other Africans but when we are among other races. Our Black identity can help us to pull ourselves together and try to catch up with other races; it can challenge us to do better so as not to be ridiculed, but it cannot help us to solve disagreement among ourselves. Thus when two Black people or Black countries disagree, their colour cannot offer a solution, unless it helps them to see that they are making a fool of their race before other races.
3. Pan-Africanism
There are some who object to the Ambazonian quest for independence by saying that they are Pan-Africanists and do not want to see the breakup of Africa. This objection raises some fundamental questions: What are the values of Pan-Africanism? For Pan-Africanists, should states that are illegally occupying territories confiscate those territories for fear that ending the illegal occupation would break up Africa? Do the Pan-Africanists have a remedy for those whose territory is being illegally occupied? Are the values of Pan-Africanism the same as those of the African Union? Does Pan-Africanism support annexation and colonialism? Can a united Africa be built on annexation, colonialism and foreign domination and subjugation of other Africans? What do Africanists understand by “breaking up” Africa? Do Pan-Africanists buy the theory of the respect of boundaries acquired at independence? If not, what alternative theory do they advance? According to Pan-Africanists, what is the model of governance that can peacefully merge African states into one, if that is their dream? For Pan-Africanists, are there any rules governing claims to territory or even the process of lawful acquisition of territory in Africa?
If we think of Africa as one big state that would never tolerate the existence of any other state in Africa, then we are doomed. Currently, there is no way to make children of different colonial masters agree on state matters; and their traditional systems play little or no role in state affairs. In big states where some groups feel marginalized or excluded, it is only a matter of time before they gain enough influence to question their fate. Once the questions start, conflict begins.
There is unity only in freedom! That freedom includes the right of self-determination for those who feel sufficiently alienated to want to form their own state. It can therefore be predicted with accuracy that the rule that the number of states in the world has always increased and will only increase will not fail. All our opposition to self-determination only ends of creating more and more conflict in the world. Let the world decide whether it wants peace in the world or whether it wants to prevent more states from coming into existence at the cost of more conflicts. What is so holy about a state that conflict should be sustained for its sake rather than peace? States are not eternal and no one should try to make them so! The Ottoman Empire, Roman Empire, British Empire, and so on have collapsed. But they are not the only ones to suffer this fate, because states that succeeded them also harbor the seeds that brought the end of these empires.
READ ALSO: Endangering 21st Century Nigeria’s Educational Institutions
We must therefore agree that it is in the interest of the world for more states to come into being, because these states are smaller, more homogeneous and less prone to conflicts. It is in the interest of the world to give freedom, because that is the source of unity and togetherness. Without a meeting of the minds, there is no union and no unity!
The principles of the African Union, a Pan-Africanist organization, are clear. African integration is based on those principles. They condemn colonization; they uphold the respect of boundaries acquired at independence; they uphold the right to self-determination and so on. Let Pan-Africanism answer the questions we have posed above so that its colours may become clearer.
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By Toyin Falola
Discussions around African Studies, its progress, and the projection of its future have increased relatively in recent times, led by scholars of decoloniality and African Indigenous Knowledge System. There are also debates in multiple centers in Africa about the value of academic work to development and policies. Complaints are loud that the PhD topics and many new books are disconnected from African concerns and future.
The conversations have been evident in different ideological spaces and blocs around the continent. Social media has escalated both the intensity and scope of the debates and platforms. However, what has been making the dialogue possible are the individuals who have taken strong grounds and hold of the importance of decolonization of African studies. They have kept the rhythm of the voices and inducted new minds and perspectives into subscribing to the endeavors.
Professor Ousseina Alidou
One thing is to have several individuals who will not let go of the discourse; another is the increase in the number of platforms and means by which those convictions are both solidly held and propagated. The Toyin Falola Interviews, with other platforms that give direct access to African Studies, have given considerable relevance to some of the prominent issues. There are various ecosystems—the opinion you hold in one may not be accepted in another. The ecosystems primarily devoted to the African perspectives have provided a ground for public history and materials rich enough to extend the scope of African Studies. In this sense, several African scholars, decision-makers, opinion leaders, organic intellectuals, and those with direct or indirect access to how African histories and studies are perceived are often engaged.
Professor Ousseina Alidou, who has often taken discussions around the uniqueness of African Studies and African perspectives, has invested many years of scholarship in expanding the frontiers of knowledge around Muslim women and women generally in African Studies. Through the Toyin Falola Interviews, she recently gave clearer perspectives on the state of African Studies in the face of global hegemony. The Panel Discussion on African Studies, held on November 19, 2023, having Ousseina D. Alidou, Professor Kenneth Harrow and Professor Richard Joseph, brought about new ideas on the subject of African studies.
The subject of global hegemony over African Studies started before I was born. The creation of several schools of thought has also propagated various ideas and ideologies. However, after many years of attempts at decolonizing African Studies and revolutionizing the academic institutions, the ghost of the past still haunts the African knowledge system. Like Professor Alidou agreed, the mirror of Africa and its studies are often from the reflections and projections of the European perspectives, so strong, that it has created a cultural and perspective domination in the knowledge production system. She posited that the colonialists and the global hegemonies have created some sort of hypnosis (to use my own word!) or understanding that has affected even the ways Africans see themselves, the continent, and its studies. Drawing from this, the problem is not only about the domination of foreign methods of science and studies in Africa but also the root of the understanding of African studies that form the basis of the conceptualization of the studies themselves. Africans now see Africa in ways far from African binoculars.
Reflecting on the above subject, Professor Alidou stated her continuous provocation from the fact that it is easier to remember any European, Latino, Asian, or foreign scholar who has written about Africa and African Studies than people would remember African or local scholars themselves. It then begs the question of whether the agitation for the projection of African Studies is to tell the world to change our tune and talk about Africa while Africans fold their hands or barely engage the subjects of Africa. From her position, it seems that there is just a subject matter switch from the former predominant foreign literature to foreign studies of Africa.
The implication of this is that African ideologies would have to be beaten into foreign methodologies, thereby killing the uniqueness of African Studies, which should have been the paramount effort. She retorted that this is why methodologies like STEM would not inculcate African art, cosmology, philosophies, and perspectives in their originalities. This is because those ideologies must be made to conform to these methodologies. This is simple: foreign perspectives or sentiments in foreign studies of Africa will always remain constant, and the African materials and essentials must conform to their parameters. As Professor Alidou has rightly stated, there is a need to build scientific, methodological, and analytical parameters around African elements and not just conform African elements to them. This is why, as she further stated, it is difficult to interpret and represent African perspectives of science.
There really cannot be a satisfactory positioning of African Studies in cogent knowledge parameters that cannot be interpreted or projected from the lights of African elements. As she said, if science cannot be embedded into spirituality, culture, and art, then there are still more stairs and steps away from the actualization of the dream.
This then makes me ponder: In light of all of these, what is science? This is not to go into the etymological definitions but structural conception in this context. Science should not be seen from the angle of a conception of foreign endeavors. Dissenting ideologically from Professor Alidou, science should not be seen as so distant from Africa. It is not science because of the scientific theories and discoveries propounded by foreigners; it is science because it raises questions of inquiries, methodologies, and certainty, especially through objectivities. I will then further ask if there can be African science or European science in the angle of having a cultural distinction of science. Everyone can agree that the primary backbone of science itself is the objective attributes and its subscription to certainty through inquisitive processes. This dissent then explains the depth of Professor Alidou’s observations: it is that science and scientific inquiries should not quarantine away from what could be wrongly seen as African frivolities. It is that the important subject of spiritualties, witchcraft, and rituals could inhale the breath of science in its entirety and independent of already concluded global biases. It is that Africans should build science out of African elements.
To put these positions in line, Professor Alidou stated that Africans and African scholars should remember that the studies should not be rested on essentialist narrow perspectives. African studies should not be seen as a stand-alone discipline because of the attempt to protect it from excessive diffusions; it should be able to tap into global knowledge but from a strong ground. So, the effort is not to isolate African Studies, it is to rightly develop African Studies, use them to understand and interpret foreign ones, and develop them from the distilled global materials. This would be the difference between global hegemony and global instrumentalism.
These efforts need repositioning African mentalities towards African Studies. However, it is a devastating reality that the drive to continue these sanitations has been low among young folks in Africa. The persuasion towards scholarship has been low. This could partly be because scholarship in Africa is growing to be less attractive, especially from the angle of incentives. Other factors have also taken the attention of those that would guarantee to onward efforts of the movements. In this light, Professor Alidou pointed to the need for reinvestment into Afrocentric studies and African scholarship. But to meet these investments, social efforts must be made to raise national identity. This was the muse decades ago in Africa, when writers like Chinua Achebe, as she referenced, and scholars spearheaded African discussions. But a fundamental challenge is that the drives have been lower these days, and Professor Alidou suggested two ways to rekindle it: the reinvestment in African Studies and the promotion of national identity.
Where education and studies are viewed and interpreted from Afrocentric and national vantage points, they would provide more solutions to local problems, challenges, and conceptualizations. For instance, Professor Alidou alluded to the fact that if education were to have been presented and projected from a cultural perspective and the enlightenment would be seen as a property of culture, acceptance would increase against other reservations. This could solve problems like terrorism in West and East Africa. Alas! the terrorists are Africans, and they subscribed to their cultural materials, no matter how remote. Where education is not very distinguishable or differs radically from culture and the concepts sought to be taught are reflected from the beams of culture, maybe education would not have been seen as “haram.”
In essence, Professor Alidou’s position iss that African Studies must be such that they adopt the elements and complexities of Africa and this must be seen from every bit of ideologies, methodologies, and concepts. It should not be a mere redirection of foreign discourses towards African Studies but Africans, developing African Studies to have a stronghold of global politics of knowledge. As of today, no platform has been successful in doing what the distinguished Professor Alidou is talking about. Rather, what they are doing is fund solicitation to reinforce the hegemonies. Alas! they even boast about it, using the left finger to point to one father’s house.
This is the interview report with a panel comprising Professors Richard Joseph, Ousseina Alidou, and Ken Harrow on November 19, 2023. For the transcripts:
YouTube: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GN6IcDGTAzE
Facebook: https://fb.watch/eLOPycx-MF/)
Organic Intellectuals
By Toyin Falola
There is a high number of intellectuals based outside of the University system. The Yoruba have produced many of them since the nineteenth century. Almost twenty-three years ago, I published a book, Yoruba Gurus: Indigenous Production of Knowledge in Africa, to reflect on a handful of them. Many do not use print media but stay within the boundaries of orality. The significance of their work is impressive.
As clearly demonstrated in Yoruba Gurus, the concepts around the ideas of intellectualism transcend the walls of universities. In fact, many of the known world changers in antiquities have emerged, not only within laboratories or the leaves of books but also some points of discoveries and depth of enlightenment gained from their continuous career and skill engagements. Hence, while the world respects academic scholars in discourses around sensitive issues, organic intellectuals who have climbed upward the ladders of authority give more practical insights into the arrays of discussions. This is the position High Chief Ifayemi Osundagbonu Elebuibon has occupied in the Nigerian and Yoruba metaphysical discourses and epistemologies.
High Chief Ifáyẹmí Ọ̀ṣúndàgbonù Elebuibon
The crust of African intellectualism was built from organic sources, and this made it difficult for the early missionaries and colonial explorers to understand the intellectual holdings of the continent and its people with diverse cultures. Really, African educational and academic systems that predated colonialism and European invasions can be appreciated, but some include technical knowledge and wisdom passed along professional lines. For instance, the concepts of theoretical physics may not be well understood if the bounds of that discipline are held strictly. However, old African knowledge of physics is seen in the experimental and professional developments. You might not be able to do something without being an outright performer of the same.
Hence, an African scientist is a professional in the area of science a modern scientist would have wanted to expand. For instance, you are better appreciated as a political scientist if you have not been within the folds of politics, and society would also help to draw you closer to the said profession. Medicine, for instance, flourished in Africa, and the development of much medical knowledge in Africa did not come from the galleries of stand-alone research, but trials and errors, as well as long years of discoveries and new cases, have brought about tweaks to medical practices. Hence, with the advancement in pedagogy, intellectualism, and scholarship, one must not be distracted by seemingly new methods but must grasp the travails and prevalence of organic intellectualism to fill in the gaps that could have been discovered in the scholarly cultural comparison.
Africa is a dynamic continent. Its greatness lies not only in the abundance of its landscape and resources but in the diverse cultures and traditions seen in its people at all times. The untapped potential of the large numbers that form the population makes it stand tall with strength, innovative abilities, creativity, and the unifying spirit of its people that transcends the borders of nations. An inspiration to those who understand this dynamic. The world has witnessed the greatness of the second-largest continent many times, from its savannahs to the rainforest and desert in the Sahel. The continent has greatly contributed to humanity distinctly.
The silent forces undisclosed to many that drive this progress and resilience seen today can only be attributed to the host of organic intellectuals that the continent harbors. This variant of intellectualism is such that no other part of the world seeks to compete with it. This is not to say that Africa maintains a monopoly of the phenomenon, but the intellectual and epistemological understanding of the continent is married to organic intellectuals and, in comparison to the preponderance in other cultures, it takes the front roll. Despite the shortfalls that marred the geometric sequence of growth, Africa still boasts of organic intellectualism that is deeply rooted in the local pearls of wisdom, cultures, beliefs, and local experiences of fellow Africans. It is an inclusive aspect of African existence that taps its resources from within. Making it easier to adopt, unlike formal education that’s embedded in premeditated syllabuses and curricula unknown to the majority.
Due to the large divergence, Africa is rich in culture and cultural elements. Even at that, the unity in diversity here is second to none. This explains why diverse experiences frequently have common grounds, passing the same message and value. Organic intellectualism is visible in every aspect of African existence. This has allowed the reengineering and rebalancing of the African knowledge systems and understanding to be easy as well as necessary. For instance, the practice of communal cohabiting and the promotion of extended family lifestyles is a result of the wisdom of organic practices. This wisdom to have family members of various age groups cohabit in large compounds is of numerous benefits. Apart from the practical purposes of shared responsibilities and resources, communal existence also fosters social benefits that allow younger relatives to tap from the wisdom of their elders through the transmission of values, cultural beliefs, skills, knowledge of medicine, religion, and interpersonal skills from the former to the latter. This bolsters interconnectivity amongst the family unit, where the knowledge acquired shapes individual interactions with others. A blissful experience from the far cry we have today, where formal institutions have taken the bulk of family time and lifestyles where modern kids now have issues relating to their heritages.
The family has always been a school, and the passing of the encoded knowledge within the family ethos and subscribed trades grow different individuals to drive out reasonable examples for discourses on organic intellectualism. Ifa priesthood, blacksmiths, agricultural science, and other sciences that, today, need to be learned in lumped-up years of continuous assessments and laboratory experiments are informally injected into the social bloodstream of every African child.
Ifa and the practices around it have posed challenges difficult to understand for those who try to view it from the lenses of modern science or objective texts of social or scientific formula. This is because, it is both science, philosophy, history, metaphysics, and other systems embedded in one. Its complexity and influence on the ideological subscriptions of Africans have made it difficult to discard. It has proven to be a knowledge system that is not taught in schools but by professionals who have learned the wisdom of divinity, especially from the cultural hands-downs of families have shown the science and logic in it. Like the error the early modern intellectuals ran into, it would be easy to discard the practices because of their non-conformity with the test of modern and global science, but approaches to organic intellectuals that have both scientific and mythical understanding of the Ifa science and research has been able to explore the unexhausted particularities of its relevance.
From the above, one would see how African wisdom has rested much on organic intellectuals, but the question now is, how has Africa fared in contemporary knowledge distribution? As posited earlier, organic intellectualism is not geographically limited or time-bound; it is a phenomenon that grows and expands with age, space, time, and profession. Every profession has organic intellectuals and their relevance will always be appreciated than many of the scholars in the academia. African concepts of organic intellectualism and intellectuals persist today, and the social systems, as seen everywhere, grow.
The relevance of African organic intellectualism impacts the immediate environment. The fields of agriculture and healthcare are two ways in which African wisdom and knowledge have been impacted. Through many generations, African farmers have been able to combat problems of food scarcity through the adoption of agroforestry. A system that allows the co-cultivation of food crops, trees, and even animals on land. This practice is very popular in Africa, especially in the semi-arid areas of West Africa. This approach allows for the conservation of resources, diversifying crop yields, and enhancing food security. The interesting aspect of it all is the wisdom displayed by these farmers to draw from local knowledge in adapting to the specific needs and conditions of the community. The health industry has also fared well through local knowledge. The adoption of local healing methods, herbs, and roots to care for the sick birthed health services that meet the specific needs of the community. This has further reduced the hardships in accessing good healthcare, as most healing materials can be accessed easily. The various practices are still evident in the local societies, but the influx of modern technologies and techniques without looking for inward approaches towards solutions is exhumed by these organic intellectuals.
One other modern dynamic is the fact that many of the African organic intellectuals do not form the folds of high-level scholarships; they do not have doctoral degrees and some have not been able to even get any degrees. This has thwarted their possibilities of climbing the needed social ladder of influence that would make their opinions count. Going through a huge part of Northern Nigeria, one would see different ways by which agriculture is being practiced, and several of the locals have acquired real knowledge that could form global agricultural changes. This is applicable to other sectors of African societies, and the country is not making efforts to expand the gems of knowledge these people hold.
Where local content and raw professionalism meet opportunity, society tends to enjoy top-notch knowledge without reserves. This brings about the Toyin Falola Interviews’ attempt to use public history to narrate African knowledge from raw organic intellectualism. Many African cultures have been explained from the vantage points of books, documentaries, and research that has gone through global methodologies, but there is a need to take a pause and call in major partakers of the phenomenon to understand the real state of things. In this effort, the series has invited High Chief Ifayemi Osundagbonu, Elebuibon, to move discourses about African metaphysics forward.
Elebuibon has been able to distinguish himself as one of the resource points in African metaphysics and epistemologies and has married practices with need. As a priest, author, poet, linguist, and even an artist, he has been able to make remarkable attempts at creating African consciousness. Elebuibon’s films and plays have been met with accolades as one of the closest links to originality and raw African knowledge. He exudes knowledge as it is or should be and not merely knowledge as observed which kills history. This has informed the decision of the Toyin Falola Interviews to invite him to discuss Ifa and Yoruba Metaphysics on December 3rd, 2023.
Please join us for a conversation with the world-famous Ifa priest, writer, poet, author, and linguist, High Chief Ifáyẹmí Ọ̀ṣúndàgbonù Elebuibon.
Sunday, December 3, 2023
5:00 PM Nigeria
10:00 AM Austin CST
Register and Watch:
https://www.tfinterviews.com/post/elebuibon
Join via Zoom:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82667830176
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